Jen Grant, CMO of Looker on The Importance of The Human Touch in Marketing

Jen Grant, CMO of Looker on The Importance of The Human Touch in Marketing

Jen Grant is the CMO at Looker, a leading business intelligence company, valued at $850 million as of March 2017. Prior to Looker, Jen spent the last 15 years building powerhouse brands from the ground-up. As the first executive marketing hire at Box, she oversaw its growth from a small “consumer back-up” start-up to an industry-leading enterprise content collaboration company used by the majority of the Fortune 500.

After Box, Jen spent a few years advising Homebrew’s portfolio, on the board of directors of nonprofit K-12 Team, and led the rebranding of Elastic as CMO. Prior to Box, Grant spent 4 years at Google leading the Google Apps EDU, Gmail and Book Search marketing teams.

Here are some of the topics discussed in this episode.

Create Face-to-Face Opportunities

With so many of our marketing channels existing primarily in the digital space, it’s easier to forget the importance in-person interaction with our clients and potential customers.

“We’re starting to see the face-to-face stuff as performing better. And it used to be like, ‘Ugh! Events are so expensive. We can only do so many.’ Now what we’re seeing is medium to small events where you really get this face-to-face interaction and you bring in one of your executives or you bring in an author from a book about data or something like that and you get fifteen people or twenty people in a room. You couldn’t touch those people through email but they will come to an event because they want to meet other data people and that is really compelling…They like to talk to people. And we can’t walk away from the human factor of what marketing is about. ”

These small demand generation and lead nurturing events allow for a higher touch opportunity that simply isn’t possible through strictly digital marketing channels.

The Human Touch in Marketing

Even your product is the market leader in your industry and, the people behind your product are likely the x-factor that drives much of the success.

“Yeah, it’s experiential marketing but it’s also like the human touch. It’s something about getting back to basics, you know, it’s an interesting phenomena. I think it’s happening because people are sick of the digital world. They’re sick of, like, a Facebook ad or a LinkedIn ad. They still respond to them if it’s something educational: ‘You know, I’m going to download a comparative report. Here’s the industry expert who says a thing; I might read about that.’

But really getting people in the door… The person has to feel like you’re going to be there with them. And maybe it’s a B2B thing, but if they’re going to bet on you and your software, they’re not going to bet on the technology, necessarily. They’re going to bet on the technology plus the person that’s going to help them, that they can trust, that they say to themselves, ‘Ok, you’re going to hold my hand. I’m not going to get fired by choosing this software…’ ”

Ultimately, the decision to invest time and money into purchasing and implementing a product comes down to the quality of the team behind it.

There Is Not Always a Single Answer

It’s easy and can be tempting to assign the fault or success of our marketing efforts to a single isolated channel. However, the collective value of your combined channels and testing the effects on each other is far more significant.

“I think the main thing that the more marketers can explain to other executives that it’s not like we’re going to find the thing, it’s that we are going to do all of the things and we’re going to test and optimize and the data and our dashboards, all of these tools are going to show us what’s working, what’s not, and then we’re going to test it again and maybe it’s not working this time. But that’s ok, because we’re going to constantly be pulling that other thing that is working and move a little money over there so it’s just sort of a constant management of many different tactics that is in fact the strategy for how to be successful and helping executives understand that that’s the deal, that there is no one answer, I think would help us a lot.”

Knowing how to communicate how your marketing channels interact with each other to business stakeholders is essential to effective testing and optimization.

Transcript

Note: this transcript has been lightly edited for clarity.

Ander: One of my favorite things about doing these podcast interviews is that I get to go new places, get some fresh air outside the office and what better place to do that than in Santa Cruz where the headquarters of Looker is located. And I am here right now with their CMO, Jen Grant.

Jen, thank you so much for having me here in your beautiful office.

Jen: Well, I’m excited to have you here.

Ander: I imagine that Looker is one of the bigger, if not the biggest, technology companies to come out of Santa Cruz. We’re right downtown in the city of Santa Cruz right now.

Jen: That’s right, yeah. There’s lots of tech startups here but we’re the only one that are able to say we fit two floors. And we’re moving into a third floor shortly.

Ander: Awesome. And the last report I read I mean you guys have raised almost $100,000,000 of funding… a little more than that?

Jen: Yep, a little bit more than that. And we now have an office in Dublin, we have an office in New York, a little office in Boulder, and London, and we have an office in San Francisco too.

Ander: Very, very good things are happening for you guys.

I explained it a little bit in the introduction to this interview what you guys do, what makes your product so cool, but it’s going to sound much better coming from you.

Tell us just briefly what Looker is and what you provide to businesses, to marketers, and to everybody else using your product.

Jen: Great. So, some people just think of it just very simply as business intelligence, but I like to think about it as ‘what’s the problem we’re really solving?’ And typically in companies today, you have one of two problems: either you have to wait to get any data to do any sort of analysis on, you know, whether your marketing is working or whether your customers are happy or anything you might want to know about what’s going on in your business. So you have to wait.

Ander: Or use valuable resources from your engineering team, etc.

Jen: Exactly! And then there’s the second problem where maybe you have a little bit of data – so you have a spreadsheet or you have access to Salesforce or you have access to Marketo or you have access to maybe one of the silos of data in your company. And you can run off with your spreadsheet and you can visualize things and then you can get into a meeting and everybody has different data and different conclusions. And then you sit around and fight on whose data is correct and whose analysis is correct instead of saying, ‘Oh, hey, let’s figure out what’s the best thing to do for the company right now so that we can all be more successful.’

Ander: And bad data is worse than no data – at least many people would think so.

Jen: That’s right. And it goes even further than that. I think people usually think about, like, ‘Oh, there’s clean data and dirty data,’ but it really is also in the definitions. So how do you define ‘revenue’ in your company? How do you define the average lifetime value of a customer?

All of those things are decisions and as a company, you should all be using the same definition but many times if you have these silos of data everybody is doing analysis and they’re just deciding, every single time they run the analysis, ‘This is what it means to be an active customer,’ and someone might say, ‘They’re logging in every seven days.’ And someone else might say, ‘They’re logging in every thirty days and they downloaded a file and they shared a thing.’ And you can’t actually have a conversation when everybody’s defining everything different.

That’s really what Looker does. We create a data platform where a data analyst can get everyone to agree on: how do you define, what are your metrics that are important that you want to track, and then make it available for everyone at the company so they don’t have to wait to get the analysis that they need, that everyone can use it.

Ander: And make it available to everybody in a visually digestible way.

Jen: Exactly, yeah. It’s not just rows and columns. You kind of have to look through it. It’s in all the visualizations you need with whatever makes sense: pie charts, bar charts… we have hundreds of visualizations you can use.

Ander: Awesome. Now, how did you end up here? You’re the CMO here of a company that’s been growing very quickly, and continuing to grow very quickly, but this is not your first rodeo, so to speak.

Jen: Yes.

Ander: You have a career that has led you to this point. So, what’s the nutshell of your professional journey?

Jen: Yeah, I would say the quick version is I did lots of crazy things trying to figure out what I was going to do with myself but where I really hit home was when I first worked at Google. And what was so wonderful about that experience was Google was still a little bit earlier so it was still innovative and wild and fun and we were testing and trying things and there was a lot of freedom.

I got put on a very controversial project called Google Book Search and I got stuffed in the middle of a crisis. It was the most educational experience of my entire career in learning how to deal both internally and externally with PR and all of the publicity around the Google Book Search project – that we were scanning libraries, what does that mean, publishers and authors aren’t sure they like it. How do we as Google and how do I as the product marketer explain why this is a valuable project for the world? So that was a hugely impactful experience on my career. And then after that, Box was sort of my risk and my hit where I got to go in and say, ‘Ok, now I own marketing.’ And Box was only 30 people when I got there so.

Ander: Wow! Ok.

Jen: It was a tiny little startup.

Ander: Yeah!

Jen: And we all thought we’re just kind of mucking around but really what we did was sit down and say, ‘Ok, how are we going to build an enterprise content management company?’ To see that from tiny all the way to – I think there were about 1,000 employees by the time I left and it was right before the IPO – was just that wild ride. And so that is kind of what brought me back to Looker because I saw – again – another company that was, not quite as early as I was at Box, but we were about 150 people when I got here. It was right at the stage of customers loving this product, really great executive teams, smart people that I want to work with, and they really needed marketing help.

It was a very technical product. All of their website, all of their messaging was super technical and they hadn’t been able to identify why should anyone else care about this product, which is of course right where I want to be to grow a big company with a great product and actually add value because it’s something they needed.

Ander:. That is awesome. And then throughout this entire process – being at Google, being at Box, etc – how has your marketing philosophy changed? What was it when you started and what is it now?

Jen: You know, it’s so interesting. So, when I started it was all about PR and messaging. At Google there’s always engineers who would build something and then say, ‘Look, I built a thing!’ and then in marketing we’d say, ‘Ok, ok, so who’s going to care about this? How should we explain it? How do we announce it?’ So it was all about the messaging of ok, this is why it matters, this is why it’s interesting. How do I shorten that down into five words and then how do I get the message out there? At Box, it was half that. if you’re familiar at all with Box, PR was our strength.

Ander: Yeah that sounds about right.

Jen: And brand. And we had billboards and we, put stuff on billboards that was super unique and caught people’s attention and got people to think about us. But we also had just a huge focus on PR and announcements and how do we, again, tell everyone how we’re transforming the world? That was a big part of it. For me professionally, it was a huge learning experience to start to ramp up on all the technology of marketing because, believe it or not, when I was first at Box, the idea of marketing automation was sort of a new thing.

Now of course it’s like a requirement! Haha.

Ander: Haha. Yeah.

Jen: We don’t know of a world without it.

Ander: Right.

Jen: But back then we were like, ‘Oh, hey, so how does the handoff to sales work? And what’s the SLA between marketing and sales? And how do we score leads? And oh, let’s try this new product that scores leads. What does that mean?’ It was all building the technology. Eventually what that came down to was data and can we do multi-touch attribution and do we do first touch or last touch?

All my time at Box was sort of lots of fun on the brand side and then a lot of really interesting learnings on following the technology and putting in place all of the new things that were going on.

Ander: Yeah, absolutely. Still things that marketers are debating about today.

Jen: Right. That’s what’s so fascinating now with Looker is now I’m actually marketing a product that’s all about the data and dashboards and we deeply understand what’s going on with our marketing and we’re looking at channels on a daily basis. What’s our conversion rate? How many leads? How on track are we to the goal? Exactly why did this channel go down? You know, all this really data-driven stuff.

And now we’re starting to see a shift in how people respond to marketing. We still will do email. We’re still going to do all of the typical things around nurture and sending content and getting people to download content, all those things.

Ander: Sure, sure.

Jen: But we’re starting to see the face-to-face stuff as performing better. And it used to be like, ‘Ugh! Events are so expensive. We can only do so many.’ Now what we’re seeing is medium to small events where you really get this face-to-face interaction and you bring in one of your executives or you bring in an author from a book about data or something like that and you get fifteen people or twenty people in a room. You couldn’t touch those people through email but they will come to an event because they want to meet other data people and that is really compelling. And so there’s sort of this resurgence of face-to-face marketing that we had kind of, you know, back in the days of ‘let the technology do everything, we can email ourselves to being successful,’ we had sort of said, ‘Oh, so we’re not going to send mail. We’re not going to do as many events. All of these things are so expensive.’ And now we’re turning around and going, ‘You know, actually, at the end of the day people like people!’ Haha.

Ander: Right.

Jen: They like to talk to people. And we can’t walk away from the human factor of what marketing is about.

Ander: Of all of the conversations I’ve had throughout the course of doing these interviews and also just in my own life as a marketer and my career so far, that to me is the fundamental common denominator between everything that’s changing with marketing right now.

There’s this cyclical nature of marketing. And I remember when I first had this realization… A lot of these tech companies have been scared of billboards and scared of TV advertising.

Jen: Yeah.

Ander: And then I saw one of these companies running a Super Bowl ad or something like that and I thought, ‘Wait a second. Things are coming back around.’

Would you categorize what you’re referring to with this face time as experiential marketing or is there another better word for it?

Jen: Yeah, it’s experiential marketing but it’s also like the human touch. It’s something about getting back to basics, you know, it’s an interesting phenomena. I think it’s happening because people are sick of the digital world. They’re sick of, like, a Facebook ad or a LinkedIn ad. They still respond to them if it’s something educational: ‘You know, I’m going to download a comparative report. Here’s the industry expert who says a thing; I might read about that.’

But really getting people in the door… The person has to feel like you’re going to be there with them. And maybe it’s a B2B thing, but if they’re going to bet on you and your software, they’re not going to bet on the technology, necessarily. They’re going to bet on the technology plus the person that’s going to help them, that they can trust, that they say to themselves, ‘Ok, you’re going to hold my hand. I’m not going to get fired by choosing this software…’ Instead, ‘I’m actually going to be promoted because I’m bringing to the company something. And even if there are problems, there’s still a human who’s with me on this journey.’

In Silicon Valley I talk a lot and I advise people and I’ll have lunches and coffee, whatever… it’s a lot of fun for me. And I often find that this is a key thing that most tech founders – who are typically engineers or product managers – they miss how important the human element is, especially in B2B. I’ve had many founders, even some big ones, say, ‘Oh, I don’t think sales is important. People will just sign up online. It’s just logical that they would sign up online.’ And I have to say things like, ‘Humans are not logical! They will never be logical. They’re going to choose the product because of the human interaction that they had, because of the trust that they feel, because you’re going to be there with them.’

That connection is so critical. I think a lot of tech companies start out thinking that that’s not going to be important and then eventually realize when they start hiring sales and hiring marketing, like, ‘Oh, wow. When I speak to people face-to-face they’re more likely to buy. And they may even pay more or buy more of my product because they’re buying into everything.’ They’re not just buying into the technology. They’re buying into the people.

Ander: Totally. Now with all of the data that we have available – especially with products like yours – we’re all so obsessed with optimization, and for a good reason. We always want to be optimizing our campaigns. How do you use data from these types of experiences to continually optimize those experiences?

Jen: Yeah, It’s so much fun to do the kind of optimization we can do now. So most of the time when I get involved – because I think it’s fascinating – it’s on the website. What are we saying on our homepage? What are saying on the product page or the most important pages of the website? And when is it that, if we change something, that we get an increase? And, we’re sort of touching everything. We’re doing the design, we’re doing the messaging.

But one of the things that’s super important in those conversations and it’s a little bit what I bring to the table is, ok, so yes if we had a very large big red button everybody wouldn’t click on it. But we have to balance that with how do we want people to feel and how do we want our brand to be represented? At some point the button is too big and too red and we need to actually express who we are as a brand and it’s hard to see that in that immediate optimization kind of work. But, you know, then we have a landing page – completely sale landing page – and we put the word ‘secure’. Just one little word! And there was a 24% increase in people filling out that silly form.

Ander: Wow!

Jen: I just felt like… ‘Argh! Humans are weird!’

Ander: Yeah, they certainly are. And one interesting thing about humans and how weird humans are in the context for what we’re talking about, is the handoff – and this is something that you and I briefly spoke about when we first connected on the phone a couple of months ago… The handoff between marketing and sales and something that is a hot topic for marketers everywhere.

Jen: Yep.

Ander: I’m wondering what the relationship is that you’ve observed between marketing and advertising with your sales team? I actually happen to know one of your sales guys, a friend of mine from long ago, Rafa. And without knowing the details of his job and everything – I imagine he’s pretty good at what he does… Haha.

Jen: Haha. Yes, he is.

Ander: What’s the relationship that you’ve observed between marketing and sales and how has that changed, especially in the context of this in-person element that you’re saying is so important?

Jen: Yeah, you know, it’s such a critical relationship and it’s so hard to get right. And I’m sure every salesperson and marketing person is nodding their head like, ‘Oh, it’s so hard!’ I’ve had experiences where it’s not been very good and then it turns out at Looker it’s actually the best relationship I’ve had.

It’s for a couple of reasons, but one of them is data. If everyone is looking at the same metrics and we all have decided what’s most important to the business, then there’s no argument over whether we did well or whether we didn’t because we’re all looking at the same data. You can’t argue – the leads either went up or went down, the conversion rate up or down, like, all of those things line up. Then if you say, ‘Ok, well, now let’s work together to say here’s where in our funnel we’re having a problem.’
In our case we schedule meetings. So, let’s say we scheduled more meetings but we’re not getting as many opportunities from those meetings. There could be many things that are going wrong so then we sit down and say, ‘Ok, here are all of the things that are going wrong. Is there any other analysis we could do that would let us know?’ Is it that some sales reps are converting meetings-to-opportunities at a reasonable rate and some just aren’t trained? It could be that. It could also be that the meetings we’re scheduling aren’t as good as they used to be. Ok, so why is that? And let’s dive into why aren’t they as good or is there a new channel we turned on that may give us meetings but not really actually a good channel, it just sort of looked like it at first.

How do we then piece out where everyone can do work to fix it? And that’s where, if you have a healthy sales and marketing team, you can work together on that discussion, look at the data, agree that we’re all going to improve and look, and then come together and say, ‘Ok, well, it’s all for the good of the company. We’re not going to blame each other for, like, oh, it’s your fault or it’s your fault!’

At Looker, that’s a lot of where we’ve had that success is in being able to look at accurate data that we can rely on and agree upon and then actually solve the problem instead of arguing over it. And I have been at plenty of companies and I know plenty of marketers who spend a lot of time, ‘How can I take the data from my system and show that my stuff is working because it is working but I’m not getting the credit for it that I think I deserve…’ And that’s not what it’s about. It’s about let’s make sure we solve the problem because there are always problems with your funnel. It’s never perfect.

Ander: Right. And one of the things that I’ve observed, to go back to our conversation about the cyclical nature of marketing and moving back to these in-person interactions, is this new emphasis on quality over quantity.

Jen: Yeah.

Ander: Instead of one hundred thousand leads, maybe you only need a hundred leads that are actually going to have this crazy high LTV and zero churn rate.

Jen: Exactly. And the reason we can do that is we can actually track the data all the way through the funnel. And I think just recently were we actually able to connect the data silos to say, ‘Oh, this lead from this channel got me this meeting, which got me that opportunity, which went to trial and then closed a deal and then didn’t churn and they paid on time.’ And those are all siloed data sets and until you can put all those data sets together to track that person through the whole thing, you can’t really know, ‘Oh, this channel is maybe only delivering ten meetings but all ten of them are converting into deals that never churn and then they do a press release with us because they love us so much.’
Ok, like that’s still a worthy channel even though it was only ten coming out of it. At the end of the day it’s actually helping us more than maybe, you know, some other channel that’s only got a 1% conversion rate and we have thousands going through it.

Ander: Right.

Jen: And I think that centralizing the data and being able to see end to end is where we can then come back and say, ‘Ok, quality is actually better.’ And we’ve seen that too with this in-person stuff we’ve been talking about with you get fifteen of the right people in a room, that’s a better use of time than going to a tradeshow that has 50,000 people and trying to make your 10×10 booth stand out because you just can’t have those deeper interactions. We had one of the biggest airlines sent us a message when we invited him to a dinner. And he said, ‘Well, I’ve gotten your email and I thought ugh… and then I got this invite and this is a cool restaurant and I thought ahh… I might as well go.’

Ander: Haha. People really like free food.

Jen: Right. And the sales rep who was there was blown away with the conversation because all of a sudden people are having dinner, they’re relaxed, it’s the end of the day… and they start talking about, ‘Yeah, here are my problems. Here’s what I’m having trouble with. Here’s what we have. Here’s what we’re doing about it.’ It’s critically important information for a sales rep to understand this person and what they actually need. And then to be able to go back to them and say, ‘You know you mentioned that this is a problem you’re having, we’d love to show you how we can help with that.’ And then your sales rep loves your marketing people and everybody is happy!

Ander: Of course.

Jen: Haha.

Ander: So, maybe this is a silly question – it sounds silly saying it – but I have a feeling you’re going to be able to help me out here. How do you host those kinds of intimate events with that kind of face time without getting ‘sales-y’?

Jen: Yeah, what’s critically important is to talk about the value of the conversation that you’re going to have. So there’s always, you know, ‘Well, you have to invite them through an email,’ so there’s always a little bit of that. But this is where we sort of started testing in the whole account-based marketing, where we’ll send them a book with an invite to the event in it and say, ‘Hey, this is this book Winning with Data that was written by our CEO and he’s going to be there and not only that but’ – let’s say it’s Atlanta – ‘all of the big data people in Atlanta are coming to this event. It’s limited. There’s only going to be twenty people and we’re going to talk about all of the things that you want to talk about.’ So trying to make it more about what do they get and what’s the conversation that they probably want to have versus, like, ‘Hey, we’re going to show you a demo and we’re going to pitch you on our product.’ Like, literally not going to do any of those things. You’re going to talk to your peers and we have some experts in the room who you can ask lots of questions and they’ll answer anything you want.

Ander: Right. Because I have been to events before where it’s advertised as a networking thing, some free food and drink…

Jen: Yeah. Haha.

Ander: And you go there and then you realize, ‘Wait, I’m just getting a sales pitch.’

Jen: Yeah, they’re just talking.

Ander: Here’s a PowerPoint presentation and they’re going to tell me how this product’s going to increase the ROI of my x, y, z… you know?

Jen: Yeah. No, when we do these types of events, there’s no PowerPoint.

Ander: Yeah.

Jen: There’s no presentation. There’s just ‘Hey, great to have you here. So glad you came. We’ve got lots of people for you to meet. Sit down; let’s eat!’ And we, whoever either from Looker or one of the authors or whatnot that we’ve brought, makes sure that everybody gets a chance to talk to them. But, if they just want to eat the food and chat with their neighbor, that’s also fine.

Ander: Awesome.

Jen: Because we also throw in some customers and invite them too.

Ander: Oh very, very smart!

Jen: They turn to the person on their left: ‘Oh, you use Looker? That’s interesting. Tell me more.’ And it’s not us at all.

Ander: Well, we are starting to run out of time but I do have a couple of other questions for you. The first question on somewhat of a silly note – do you guys have a lot of internal puns using the name of your product?

Jen: Haha. We do! We have so many!

Ander: Yeah, ‘looking at Looker,’ or whatever it might be…

Jen: We just did our user conference and our product road map is ‘Looker into the future.’

We try not to go too far but in the early days everybody actually got a nickname that had the word ‘looker’ in it.

Ander: Wow. That’s cute.

Jen: Mine is ‘Looker outside the box’.

Ander: Oh, perfect for a CMO!

Jen: It was perfect.

Ander: Yeah, absolutely. And then on somewhat of a more serious note, we’ve talked about it quite a bit throughout the course of this conversation about where marketing is headed, the importance of face time.

Jen: Yeah.

Ander: What can we do as marketers to prepare for the increasing importance of this as we move into this new frontier of growth and marketing?

Jen: I think the piece that I see as the hurdle is often the CFO, the CEO, that don’t get it, that see the cost of these events but don’t understand the importance of the human connection.

Whereas it’s so easy. I’ve so many people come to me – CFOs, product engineering, and say, ‘Well just find me that one ad that gets a company to sign up. And then we’ll just put all our money into that one thing and we won’t need to do all these other things.’ There’s a huge educational process in just sitting down and saying, ‘Look. When you start looking at this data,’ – and we’ve actually finally been able to see this in the data – ‘it’s all of the things at the same time that matter. It’s not the one thing.’

Ander: The collective value.

Jen: It’s the collective value. There’s never going to be one lever that you magically will find and you just flood all your money into there and ‘whoo hoo, we’re done!’ It’s always going to be, ‘Ok, we need some PPC…’ We actually kind of accidentally for a week shifted our budget on LinkedIn away from the larger companies to the sort of mid-sized, largely because we just wanted to get more leads from that, kind of a little shift. And all of a sudden for that week, that two-week period of time actually, the organic hits to our website dipped on the enterprise side and we were like, ‘What?! There’s a halo effect on our advertising that we didn’t know about! We always thought it was there but now we can prove it.’

Ander: Totally.

Jen: And it’s very rare you have moments like that because why would you ever turn your advertising off just to prove that it also will make everything else drop?

Ander: Well, yeah. I mean I’ve been at companies before where we’ve done tests just turning off all of our advertising in, the eastern United States and just seeing what the effect is on. Maybe a dip in organic or a lift in search traffic whatever.

Jen: Yeah, it happens. That’s the kind of conversation to get other executives to understand what you’re doing, is to start to help them understand that it’s not one thing, that we can’t just have a PPC strategy, like, ‘Ahh, that’s all we’re going to do.’ That’ll never work. Or ‘We’re just going to prospect. We’re going to buy email lists and prospect. That’s our strategy.’ That’s not going to work. You have to do all of the things and part of all of the things is those later stage funnel – the dinners, the sending them a book, the inviting them to a meet-up, doing a small specific-to-an-industry trade show. It’s just a constant test, optimize, test, optimize.

And then the worst part about the whole thing is that once you find something that works, it’s only going to work for about 6-9 months and then it stops working. Haha.

Ander: Right. Haha. And that’s where you have to be innovative.

Jen: Exactly! And then you’ve got to be constantly trying other things. So, I think the main thing that the more marketers can explain to other executives that it’s not like we’re going to find the thing, it’s that we are going to do all of the things and we’re going to test and optimize and the data and our dashboards, all of these tools are going to show us what’s working, what’s not, and then we’re going to test it again and maybe it’s not working this time. But that’s ok, because we’re going to constantly be pulling that other thing that is working and move a little money over there so it’s just sort of a constant management of many different tactics that is in fact the strategy for how to be successful and helping executives understand that that’s the deal, that there is no one answer, I think would help us a lot.

Ander: Awesome. Very, very good advice, and certainly something I will keep in mind and I imagine the rest of us listening will as well.

Jen, thank you so much again for having me here in your office, your awesome office with these nice big windows and…

Jen: A couple of surfboards in the lobby… Haha.

Ander: Couple of surfboards, the smell of the ocean, it’s great! For anyone who does not know, Santa Cruz is a beach town about an hour, hour and a half from San Francisco, so a nice little break from the city.

If people want to find out more about you, more about Looker, what’s the best way to do that?

Jen: looker.com – always easy! Or they can always reach out to me. I’m easy to find.

Ander: Awesome. Jen, once again, thank you so much and I’m sure we’ll talk to you soon.

Jen: Thank you!

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